When, whenever and if in zero conditional (2025)

In 'Grammar and Beyond' by Blass, Iannuzzi, Savage and Reppen, I have learnt that
when, whenever and if can be used in the zero conditional without chaging the meaning. It means
they are interchangeable.

Anyway, someone told me that that is not very true. He/She said that when implies certainty, whenever implies every time and if implies condition.
But, what do native speakers think? What do grammar experts think?

I disagree with him/her.
Zero conditional is about general truths, habits or routines. Thus, the connotation of the three words
(when, whenever and if) do not have much sense here.
I gave an example:
If the sunset happens, I go to see it.
Whenever the sunset happens, I go to see it.
When the sunset happens, I go to see it.
By the way, that person told me that the first sentence implies that I assume the probability that
the sun will not set one day.
That the second sentence implies that I go to see the sunset everytime it happens.
And, that the third sentence implies that I go to see the sunset with certainty.

At the end, he/she did not convince me.
Any ideas?

Have fun!

A sunset is a daily event and so your first sentence "If the sunset happens, I go to see it" as it stands doesn't make much logical sense because it implies a possibility that one evening for whatever reason there might not be a sunset for you to see. If you alter it to say "If an eclipse happens, I go to see it", that works much better.

That change also works better with when and whenever:
"Whenever an eclipse happens, I go to see it."
"When an eclipse happens, I go to see it."

DonnyB said:

A sunset is a daily event and so your first sentence "If the sunset happens, I go to see it" as it stands doesn't make much logical sense because it implies a possibility that one evening for whatever reason there might not be a sunset for you to see. If you alter it to say "If an eclipse happens, I go to see it", that works much better.

That change also works better with when and whenever:
"Whenever an eclipse happens, I go to see it."
"When an eclipse happens, I go to see it."

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So, my book is wrong and I am wrong too, aren't we?

'When' is used for things that are sure to happen.
And 'if' is used for things that will possibly happen.

But, what is the point of the zero conditional?
It is used for general truths, habit or routines, the sunset is a general truth, isn't it?

Let me copy the book's example:
When you trust people, you tend to believe them.
If you trust people, you tend to believe them.

Please, help me.

And have fun!

DASP said:

Let me copy the book's example:
When you trust people, you tend to believe them.
If you trust people, you tend to believe them.

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The first suggests that there actually are times when you trust people, while the second says what will happen if you ever do trust people.
From the English Page site on Present Real Conditionals (which is also what your book calls them) :

Both "if" and "when" are used in the Present Real Conditional. Using "if" suggests that something happens less frequently. Using "when" suggests that something happens regularly.

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If, when, and whenever are near synonyms, but not exact synonyms.

If is conditional. Except in contrafactuals, it means "under any set of circumstances in which". "If x then y" means "Either y or not x."

When means "at the time or times in which".

Whenever means either "at every time in which", "at no matter what time in which", or "at the unknown time or times in which".

DonnyB said:

A sunset is a daily event and so your first sentence "If the sunset happens, I go to see it" as it stands doesn't make much logical sense because it implies a possibility that one evening for whatever reason there might not be a sunset for you to see. If you alter it to say "If an eclipse happens, I go to see it", that works much better.

That change also works better with when and whenever:
"Whenever an eclipse happens, I go to see it."
"When an eclipse happens, I go to see it."

Click to expand...

Hi DonnyB,

Could you please see these sentences?
1) When/if Mr. Smith teaches English, students get excited.
2) If/when it rains, the grass gets wet.

Could you please let me know the difference?

Roymalika said:

Could you please see these sentences?
1) When/if Mr. Smith teaches English, students get excited.
2) If/when it rains, the grass gets wet.

Could you please let me know the difference?

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In my opinion they both work better with when/whenever than they do with "if" for much the same reason that I gave six years ago.

DonnyB said:

In my opinion they both work better with when/whenever than they do with "if" for much the same reason that I gave six years ago.

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Right.
Please confirm whether I've got it right.
1) with "if" means that there's a possibility that sometimes Mr. Smith may not teach, so there's less chance of students getting excited.
2) with "if" means that there's a possibility that sometimes it may not rain, so there's less chance of the grass getting wet.

Roymalika said:

Right.
Please confirm whether I've got it right.
1) with "if" means that there's a possibility that sometimes Mr. Smith may not teach, so there's less chance of students getting excited.
2) with "if" means that there's a possibility that sometimes it may not rain, so there's less chance of the grass getting wet.

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What do you mean by "less chance"? All three options being considered in this thread (zero conditional, "when" and "whenever") describe certainties. If/when/whenever it rains, the grass is certain to get wet. At other times, perhaps it doesn't get wet, but none of these sentence say anything at all about what happens to the grass when it doesn't rain, or what the likelihood of rain is.

If the thing always happens, so if Mr Smith always teaches this particular class (and the students always get excited), then it makes no sense to use a conditional sentence.

DASP said:

In 'Grammar and Beyond' by Blass, Iannuzzi, Savage and Reppen, I have learnt that
when, whenever and if can be used in the zero conditional without changing the meaning.

Click to expand...

This may well be true.

DASP said:

It means they are interchangeable.

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This is not implied at all. Just because you can replace "if" with "when" or "whenever" does not mean that you can replace "when" or "whenever" with "if".

Roymalika said:

Could you please see these sentences?
1) When/if Mr. Smith teaches English, students get excited.
2) If/when it rains, the grass gets wet.

Could you please let me know the difference?

Click to expand...

"If" and "when" do not mean the same thing (see my previous post), but sometimes they can be used in the same situation.

Are you referring to time, or to circumstances?
Do you know whether such a time or such circumstances must necessarily exist?

Forero said:

Are you referring to time, or to circumstances?
Do you know whether such a time or such circumstances must necessarily exist?

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Sorry, I don't understand your question. Could you please elaborate it?

Roymalika said:

Sorry, I don't understand your question. Could you please elaborate it?

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An adverbial "when" clause is normally an adverbial of time. "When Mr. Smith teaches English, students get excited" primarily means that times in which Mr. Smith teaches English are times in which students get excited. This assumes that at least one such time exists. Is this what you mean?

An adverbial "if" clause is a condition, and it can be used whether or not you assume Mr. Smith ever teaches English. "If Mr. Smith teaches English, students get excited" means that either students get excited or Mr. Smith does not teach English. Is this what you mean?

Whenever both of these things are true, you can use either sentence.

And if you mean that students invariably get excited whenever (at any time(s) whatever that) Mr. Smith teaches English, then you can use either sentence.